Symone Sanders was just 26 when she became national press secretary for Vermont senator Bernie Sanders. It was 2015 and Sanders was still far behind Hillary Clinton in the polls. Within the next six months, of course, he would become a formidable candidate in the race and she would become one of his best and best-known advocates on the trail—a fierce, fearless defender of his policies and ideals. Once Clinton clinched the nomination, Sanders formalized her appearances on CNN as a political commentator and passionate progressive voice for the network.
Given her bona fides, it came as a surprise to some when last month former vice president Joe Biden announced he had hired her for his presidential campaign. Sanders is now a senior adviser to Biden, working to elect the man that her former boss Bernie Sanders is said to consider his biggest threat in the 2020 race. At the time her new gig was made public, the Associated Press reported that numerous candidates—from Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren to California senator Kamala Harris—had themselves tried to hire Sanders. In the end, Biden, who spent a reported full month on his recruitment effort, prevailed.
It’s clear that Biden, 76, stands to benefit from the expertise Sanders, now 29, has to offer. As the Associated Press put it, “The move adds a younger diverse voice to Biden’s cadre of top advisers, which has been dominated by older white men.” But Sanders has not, until now, addressed what compelled her to take Biden’s offer over the rest. For all the aviator sunnies memes and articles headlined with versions of, “Obama and Biden: A Bromance for the Ages,” Biden has a complicated record, in particular on civil rights issues. And in the #MeToo era, his treatment of Anita Hill, who testified against now Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas when Biden was chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1991 and who has herself said Biden “could have done more to support her,” has come under the microscope.
For now and in these first months of the presidential campaign season, Biden is still ahead in most polls and has retained notable and broad support from older African American voters, an essential group to appeal to. But whether he can widen his base to include more millennial, progressive voters in the most diverse field of candidates ever remains to be seen.
One month after Biden’s formal entrance into the race, Sanders spoke to Glamour in an exclusive interview about her decision to join the campaign, what frustrates her about how Biden is perceived, and how she responds to her own critics.
Glamour: I’m going to start the most obvious question, which I’m sure you’ve gotten a lot.
Symone Sanders: The one with the “why”?
A version of that. I do, obviously, want to hear why. But I’m interested in the fact that the candidate you last worked for is also in this race. Why was Bernie Sanders the right candidate for you in 2016 but not the right candidate for you in 2020?
Look, I think politics for me is about my values. And last semester, actually, I had the opportunity to be a fellow at USC’s Center for the Political Future. I taught a class called “Whose Party Is It Anyway: Navigating the Democratic Party Apparatus.” Basically I think far too many people in the Democratic Party or people who identify as progressive have tied their politics to people and not to values.
For me, my politics are not tied specifically to any person. My politics are not tied to Bernie Sanders. Frankly, my politics aren’t tied directly to Joe Biden. They’re tied to my values, which is why in one breath I can serve for Senator Sanders, and in another breath I can serve on the Democratic National Convention Committee in 2016, and in another breath I can work at Priorities USA, and in this current iteration, I can serve as the senior advisor to the former vice president of the United States of America. It’s about my values. It has nothing to do with Senator Sanders and everything to do with me. And for me, I am here because I feel as though this is a consequential point in our history for our nation. I agree with the vice president that we are in a fight for the soul of our nation. And I want to beat the brakes off Donald Trump. I feel like Joe Biden can do that.
What was the answer to your question, from your class—whose party is it?
Since you didn’t take the class, I’ll tell you. We’ll jump to the end of the semester. The answer was [that] it’s the apparatus’ party. Because the apparatus is still in charge. The money and the structure still flows with the apparatus. And so how do you change the direction of the Democratic Party apparatus? You have to infiltrate the apparatus. And so that is why we’re seeing the voices of young people, voices of people of color, that are represented here on our campaign. That is how you change the nature and the discussion of what’s going on. And I think that’s how we’re going to win this election.
On values, is the paramount value in this race beating Donald Trump? Or are there other things about Biden’s record that feel to you particularly expressive of your values?
So, I’m going to be honest. I have personal relationships with a number of people who also happen to be running for president this cycle, right? Maya Harris—I consider her my big sister. She happens to also be the campaign chair for her sister, Kamala, who’s running for president. I consider Kirsten Gillibrand a good friend. Cory Booker is a good friend. Elizabeth Warren is one of my favorite people to have tea with. She doesn’t drink coffee, fun fact. It is not that I’m working against any other candidate. I am simply working for Joe Biden.
Before deciding to come on, I sat down with him, and he told me two things that really struck me. The first thing was when he first got elected, he was 29 years old. I’m 29 right now. I turn 30 at the end of this year. And it struck me in our conversation that Joe Biden knows what it’s like to be a young person who wants to have a voice, who wants to contribute, who wants to come in and shake things up. He ran against an incumbent when he ran for the Senate. Some people thought it was crazy for this young 29-year-old kid to run against an incumbent and beat the incumbent. I can identify with that, because I’m a 29-year-old person right now, trying to figure out how to pay my bills, but also save the republic.
The other thing that struck me was what he said about abuse of power. He noted that one thing his parents instilled in him is that when you see an abuse of power, it’s your obligation to stand up and combat it. And he told me that that’s what’s always motivated him, and that was the real reason why he was running for president. What he’s seeing from Donald Trump, what he’s seeing from this administration—from children in cages, from just the rampant abuse of power from everywhere, from the Treasury Department on down—is one, not who we are, but two, is a direct affront to his values. And I felt that to my core. And I was like, You know what? I think this is where I want to be.
In 2018 we did see this explosion of activism and the elevation of these new voices in government and even in the media. And you, in some ways, were part of that. And I think I’m correct to assume you’re broadly supportive of those forces and the way they’ve coalesced. And I know you know that the former vice president is not a 29-year-old upstart anymore, and he has been doing this a long time.
Well, I hope he’s not the same person at 29 that he is now. I don’t want to be the same person that I am now all those years later.
Sure. But, there are valid questions about whether he’s the right person to represent the particular coalition that came together. Why is he, with his long history, the person who can and should sit atop that new coalition that has been built from the grassroots up?
So, the voters are going to have to decide. It’s up to the American people whether or not vice president Biden will be the Democratic nominee, will be the next president of the United States of America. All he can do is go out there on the campaign trail and make his case to the American people. And I’d like to remind everyone, we’ve been in this race for just about a month. It feels like years, but it’s only been a month. We did our official kickoff rally last weekend, and he is ready to make his case. Now, who’s to say [the next nominee] won’t be a woman? It won’t be a person of color? It won’t be an LGBTQ+ individual? We don’t know, but I can say that I think Joe Biden has just as much right as anybody else to put his name in the hat to run for president of the United States of America.
We do still live in a democracy, however fraught that may be.
However fraught that may be. And I just want to say one other thing about 2018. I believe the vice president went out and campaigned for over 55 different folks on the ballot in 2018. He was the most sought-after national surrogate. In places from Florida to Wisconsin to Ohio to Pennsylvania to Michigan. He campaigned for Andrew Gillum. He campaigned for folks in Milwaukee. He campaigned for my friend, Mandela Barnes, who is now the lieutenant governor of Wisconsin. He campaigned everywhere. So again, I think it takes an intergenerational, intersectional coalition to get this work done. And the idea that Joe Biden quote-unquote has no business in this race, I just think it runs in direct contrast of who we say we want to be as Americans, but especially as Democrats.
He certainly did turn out for a lot of people. He also praised a Republican, Fred Upton, in Michigan, who went on to win his race [against a Democrat]. His particular brand of working across the aisle, or working with Republicans—can he continue to do that when he’s also trying to represent people who feel their rights are under threat?
Well, I can’t tell you about these other candidates, I can only tell you about Joe Biden. What I can say about Joe Biden is that he has been very clear-eyed that there are some things we’re going to have to do bare-knuckled and then there are some things we’re going to have to work across the aisle with our friends on. So again, I can’t talk to you about any other candidates, but I can tell you what Joe Biden believes. And I’m very comfortable with that belief system and I’m happy to be here. But do we always agree? No. I haven’t always agreed with everyone I’ve worked for. But when I tuck myself in bed at night and take off these eyelashes, I know that I am working to make America a better place and that the candidate that I decided to sign up for would drastically change the lives of people in this country. If I didn’t feel secure in that, I wouldn’t be here.
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On the Supreme Court now, we have Clarence Thomas. We’ve got Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, who took the bench after Dr. Christine Blasey Ford took the stand. In the past two weeks, we’ve seen these bans on abortion and we know Roe v. Wade is under threat, and it’s headed for the Supreme Court. I think for a lot of women, it’s a really scary, scary time.
Yes, it is.
In your conversations with vice president Biden, what have you learned about what he will specifically do to protect a woman’s right to choose?
One, he believes that Roe v. Wade is not just settled law; he believes it’s the law of the land. He believes it’s a constitutional right. He said, [this week], we have to take it a step further and have those rights codified through Congress. He wants it to be written in law in Congress. And I think that’s important.
I caught your recent Twitter exchange with activist Shaun King about Joe Biden’s involvement in the 1994 crime bill, which I’m sure you’ve gotten a lot of questions about. It seems the issue of the crime bill is not going to go away despite your efforts to clarify it(https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/05/18/joe-biden-crime-bill-symone-sanders-victor-blackwell-newsroom-vpx.cnn) and Biden’s efforts to talk about it. From your perspective, given that he had months to prepare for this run, do you think he should have entered the race with a comprehensive criminal justice plan to answer the questions that still remain about that vote?
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Well, look, many people had months to quote-unquote prepare for this race. And what I’ll say is this: I think the vice president has been very clear that there are too many people in jail. Too many people—disproportionately people of color, disproportionately African-American folks—are in jail. And what he has come out and said is that he supports the decriminalization of marijuana. But not just decriminalization, he supports automatic expungements. That is very important. Most people say, “Yeah, we should expunge it, and folks need to go to court and get a lawyer.” Joe Biden has come out and said, “We need automatic expungement.”
Our full-fledged platform is coming. You know, we’ve been in this race for a month, but I think folks don’t have to wonder where the vice president sits on [the issues of] if we need to address mandatory minimums, if we need to get rid of the three-strikes rule. He’s on the record on those things and clear, and again, just as recently as last week, he was talking about the decriminalization of marijuana. So that’s what I have to say about that.
What, if anything, frustrates you about the way Joe Biden is perceived?
The thing that frustrates me is that people don’t understand vice president Biden is literally all about relationships. So much so that if he’s supposed to be on the phone with you for 15 minutes, you’re probably going to end up on the phone for 30 to 45 [minutes] because he’s not someone who just wants to come in and say, “OK, this is all we’re going to do, and we’re going to get out of here.” No. He cares about having a conversation with you. I just think that’s a rare trait, and something I really admire about him.
Do you really think that that part of him is misunderstood?
I feel like this there’s a misconception that he doesn’t get it, that he’s out of touch, and I’m confused about how someone who can be so much about relationships, so much about meeting people where they are, can also be out of touch with the moment that we’re in. He’s absolutely not out of touch. I think he’s laser-focused and has a clear idea about how he thinks we get America back on track.
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And you feel that too, from your own conversations with him?
Yeah, I do.
Jill Biden, Joe Biden’s wife, has said she thinks it’s “time to move on” from the issue of Anita Hill. Do you agree?
Look, Professor Hill has come out and said her piece on this, and I think we have to accept where Professor Hill is and that’s where she’s at. She has the right to think what she thinks. She has the right to support whomever she would like to support or not support in this race, and America needs to accept that. Now, vice president Biden has had a private conversation with Professor Hill that I’m not going to get into the details. He’s allowed her the grace to be where she is, and I think the rest of us need to do just that. It’s not on us to police Professor Hill’s conduct. Us, as in the American people. She’s entitled to her own decision and we should leave it at that.
Certainly, she’s entitled. But I wonder if, between his [public] appearances and the private conversation, you feel he has sufficiently owned the issue of what happened when Anita Hill came to testify about Clarence Thomas?
Look, I want to take people back. When it happened, vice president Biden, who was Senator Biden at the time, said that he never wanted what happened to Professor Hill to happen to any person, particularly any woman, ever again, and that is to be questioned by an all-male, all-white Senate Judiciary Committee. Fast forward to Dr. Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony. Now, I’m not going to even talk about the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee, because it just turns my stomach. But I will say the fact that there were women of color on the committee to question Dr. Ford, the fact that she had a committee that was comprised of her peers, is a direct result of the work that folks like Joe Biden went out and did in the aftermath of the Clarence Thomas hearing. He has talked about it on the campaign trail. He talks often about how this is not a one-and-done situation. He fought vigorously to pass the Violence Against Women Act. He has been a vigorous advocate on college campuses across the country on this issue. And I like leaders that learn, OK? I love leaders that learn. And Joe Biden is a leader that learns.
Do you think that Joe Biden will choose a woman as his running mate?
I think we’re trying to get through this Democratic primary.
I’ve now heard both you and Joe Biden himself talk about this election as a “battle for the soul of the nation.” But again, does that mean he’s the best leader to get us out of this particular moment? Or are there positive leadership priorities of his that excite you—the things that he wants to do, the things that would be the central parts of his presidency if he were to win?
I just want to be really clear. This is about a values thing for me and where I thought I aligned best and, frankly, where I thought I could be the most effective, because part of being a good aide to any candidate is being able to be effective for and with them. And that is why I decided and I chose to join vice president Biden’s campaign. This is not about me working against anybody else. This is not about me saying, “Someone else is less-than.” This is a personal values choice that I made for myself, and I guess the last point that I would make about this is that for some people, politics is something they just dip their toe in and out of. Campaigns are something they do every now and then, and then they go back to the other thing that they do. For me, campaigns—this is what I do. This is the only thing I’ve ever done. I’m in this every single day and I am very confident that I know how to make the best decisions for me, myself, and my career. And that’s all I have to say about that.
What’s the best part about being back on the trail, and what has changed, in terms of what you’re hearing from people, between 2016 and now?
Oh, the travel. My favorite thing about campaigns is being able to go across the country or across a state and visit with people in spaces and places that I otherwise never would. I think what’s so different is that in 2016, a number of people did not view Trump as the true existential threat that he was, right? There were folks who didn’t even believe Donald Trump could win, and now what I feel is there is a different sense of urgency out there across the country. There are these true existential threats to our humanity. And folks are concerned about that, but more than just being concerned, they are ready and willing to fight. So I’m excited about that. I just hope that for folks who think they know Joe Biden but they really don’t know much about him, give him and, frankly, all the other candidates, a chance. Campaigns are about candidates making their case to the American people, and I will tell you, we plan to take our message to every single voter in this country, because we’re trying to win the votes of everybody, because we’re trying to be the president for all people, not like the current person you see in the White House.
Did the reaction to your decision surprise you in any way, or were you pretty prepared for it?
I didn’t really give it any thought, because I didn’t make this decision for anybody else. I made the decision for me, and I will say to any of the young women out there who may read this interview, you have to take control of your life, and we cannot go through life making decisions based on what we think other people will think about us, based on what we think other people will do.
When I started to do a little television but didn’t have a contract yet, I was speaking to agents, and there were a number of agents who told me I was not “palatable”enough for cable television. One agent told me this to my face. Another agent I got on the phone with told me that I needed voice lessons because I did not sound like what people were used to hearing when they turned on the television. Had I listened to those agents, had I let their opinions influence what I thought was best for me, I would not have had the opportunity to sit on CNN as a commentator for the last two years and be a representative voice for so many people across the country. So I’m not concerned what people have to say about me. I’m concerned about doing the work. I’m concerned about being a great team player. And I’m concerned about getting Joe Biden elected as the Democratic nominee and the next president of the United States of America, OK?
This interviewed has been edited and condensed.
Mattie Kahn is a senior editor at Glamour. Follow her on Twitter @mattiekahn.
